空 "Śūnyatā" 3

 

Karma in different cultures: Aṅgulimāla, Jetsun Milarepa, Yuán-zé 1

 

I will continue to lecture on karma today and use three Buddhist stories to scrutinize how attitudes toward karma would vary with cultures. The first Aṅgulimāla’s story is a cross post translated by Lao Buddhist Temple of Elgin.

Source from https: //buddhistmonasterychicago. org/2020/05/02/ agulimala-story/

 

At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.

 

Now at that time in the realm of King Pasenadi of Kosala there was a bandit named Aṅgulimāla. He was violent, bloody-handed, a hardened killer, merciless to living beings. He laid waste to villages, towns, and countries. He was constantly murdering people, and he wore their fingers as a necklace.

 

Then the Buddha robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Sāvatthī for alms. Then, after the meal, on his return from alms-round, he set his lodgings in order and, taking his bowl and robe, he walked down the road that led to Aṅgulimāla.

 

The cowherds, shepherds, farmers, and travelers saw him on the road, and said to him, “Don’t take this road, ascetic. On this road there is a hardened killer named Aṅgulimāla.” and urged the Buddha to turn back. But when they said this, the Buddha went on in silence.

 

The bandit Aṅgulimāla saw the Buddha coming off in the distance, and thought, “It’s incredible, it’s amazing! People travel along this road only after banding closely together in groups of ten, twenty, thirty, forty, or fifty. Still they meet their end by my hand. But still this ascetic comes along alone and unaccompanied, like he had beaten me already. Why don’t I take his life?”

 

Then Aṅgulimāla donned his sword and shield, fastened his bow and arrows, and followed behind the Buddha. But the Buddha used his psychic power to will that Aṅgulimāla could not catch up with him no matter how hard he tried, even though the Buddha kept walking at a normal speed.

 

Then Aṅgulimāla thought, “It’s incredible, it’s amazing! Previously, even when I’ve chased a speeding elephant, horse, chariot or deer, I’ve always caught up with them. But I can’t catch up with this ascetic no matter how hard I try, even though he’s walking at a normal speed.”

 

He stood still and said, “Stop, stop, ascetic!”

“I’ve stopped, Aṅgulimāla—now you stop.”

Then Aṅgulimāla thought, “These Sakyan ascetics speak the truth. Yet while walking, the ascetic Gotama says: ‘ I’ve stopped, Aṅgulimāla—now you stop.’ Why don’t I ask him about this?”

 

Then he addressed the Buddha in verse:

“While walking, ascetic, you say ‘I’ve stopped.’

And I have stopped, but you tell me I’ve not.

I’m asking you this, ascetic:

how is it you’ve stopped and I have not?”

 

“Aṅgulimāla, I have forever stopped—

I’ve cast off violence towards all creatures.

But you can’t stop yourself from harming living creatures;

that’s why I’ve stopped, but you have not.”

 

Aṅgulimāla thought to himself: “Am I committing misdeeds? I am doing just what my teacher asks me. He tells me to kill a thousand humans and make a garland of 1000 human little fingers of the right hand to pay ceremonial homage to the science I have learned.”

 

Then he uttered:

“Oh, at long last, I have met a great sage who I honor,

Now that I’ve heard your verse on Dhamma,

I shall live without evil.”

 

With these words, the bandit hurled his sword and weapons

down a cliff into a chasm.

He venerated the Holy One’s feet,

and asked him for the going forth right away.

 

Then the Buddha, the compassionate great hermit,

the teacher of the world with its gods,

said to him, “Come, monk!”

And with that he became a monk.

 

Then the Buddha set out for Sāvatthī with Venerable Aṅgulimāla as his second monk. Traveling stage by stage, he arrived at Sāvatthī, where he stayed in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.

 

Then King Pasenadi set out to chase Aṅgulimāla. He drove out from Sāvatthī in the middle of the day with around five hundred horses, heading for the monastery. He went by carriage as far as the terrain allowed, then descended and approached the Buddha on foot. He bowed and sat down to one side. The Buddha said to him,

 

“What is it, great king? Is King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha angry with you, or the Licchavis of Vesālī, or some other opposing ruler?”

 

“No, sir. In my realm there is a bandit named Aṅgulimāla. He is violent, bloody-handed, a hardened killer, merciless to living beings. … I shall put a stop to him.”

 

“But great king, suppose you were to see that Aṅgulimāla had shaved off his hair and beard, dressed in ocher robes, and gone forth from the lay life to homelessness. And that he was refraining from killing living creatures, stealing, and lying; that he was eating in one part of the day, and was celibate, ethical, and of good character. What would you do to him?”

 

“I would bow to him, rise in his presence, or offer him a seat. I’d invite him to accept robes, alms-food, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick. And I’d arrange for his lawful guarding and protection. But sir, how could such an immoral, evil man ever have such virtue and restraint?”

 

Now, at that time Venerable Aṅgulimāla was sitting not far from the Buddha. Then the Buddha pointed with his right arm and said to the king, “Great king, this is Aṅgulimāla.”

 

Then the king became frightened, scared, his hair standing on end. Knowing this, the Buddha said to him, “Do not fear, great king. You have nothing to fear from him.” Then the king’s fear died down.

 

Then the king went over to Aṅgulimāla and said, “Sir, is the venerable really Aṅgulimāla?”

“Yes, great king.”

“What clans were your father and mother from?”

“My father was a Gagga, and my mother a Mantāṇī.”

“May the venerable Gagga Mantāṇīputta be happy. I’ll make sure that you’re provided with robes, alms-food, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick.”

 

But at that time Venerable Aṅgulimāla lived in the wilderness, ate only alms-food, and owned just three robes. So he said to the king, “Enough, great king. My robes are complete.”

 

Then the king went back to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him, “It’s incredible, sir, it’s amazing! How the Buddha tames those who are wild! For I was not able to tame him with the rod and the sword, but the Buddha tamed him without rod or sword. Well, now, sir, I must go. I have many duties, and much to do.”

 

Then Aṅgulimāla, living alone, withdrawn, diligent, keen, and resolute, soon realized the supreme end of the spiritual path in this very life. He lived having achieved with his own insight the goal for which gentlemen rightly go forth from the lay life to homelessness. And Venerable Aṅgulimāla became one of the perfected.

 

Then Venerable Aṅgulimāla robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Sāvatthī for alms. Now at that time someone threw a stone that hit Aṅgulimāla, someone else threw a stick, and someone else threw gravel. Then Aṅgulimāla—with cracked head, bleeding, his bowl broken, and his outer robe torn—went to the Buddha.

 

The Buddha saw him coming off in the distance, and said to him, “Endure it, brahmin! Endure it, brahmin! You’re experiencing in this life the result of deeds that might have caused you to be tormented in hell for many years, many hundreds or thousands of years.”

 Source from: https://suttacentral.net/mn86 Aṅgulimāla Sutta MN 86 MN ii 97

引用三個不同佛教的業力故事來看各地方文化對業力的處理態度。

《增壹阿含第三八品第六經 阿含經故事選》

有一次，佛陀到憍薩羅國的首都舍衛城遊化，住在城南郊外的祇樹給孤獨園。

這天，比丘們到舍衛城中乞食，看到許多民眾在波斯匿王的宮外請願，要求國王出兵，緝拿一位名叫鴦掘利摩羅的殺人魔，大家都說他極為兇暴，見人便殺，而且還將被害人的手指骨串起來，掛在自己身上當飾物。

比丘們乞食回來後，將這件事告訴佛陀。

佛陀聽了比丘們的轉述，默默地朝鴦掘利摩羅藏身的林裡走去。

當佛陀越來越接近鴦掘利摩羅藏身的樹林時，沿路上撿柴的、背草的、耕田的、牧牛羊的民眾紛紛警告佛陀，要佛陀不要再向前走了，他們說前面的樹林中，就住著一位危險的殺人魔。佛陀沒在意他們的警告，仍然默默地朝樹林走去。

鴦掘利摩羅遠遠地看到佛陀一個人獨自走來，心想:

「太好了！即使是四、五十人成群結伴經過這裡，都還成為我的獵物，人們已經很久不曾像這位沙門一樣，敢獨自經過這裡了，我為何要錯失這個好機會呢？」

於是，鴦掘利摩羅拿起他的武器，從佛陀的後面追殺過來。但佛陀現了神通力，鴦掘利摩羅追了一陣子後，發現他怎麼老是追不上，心想:「怪事！即使奔走中的象、馬、鹿，飛馳中的車乘，我都追得上，但眼前這位以普通步伐走路的沙門，我怎麼盡全力了還追不上。」

因此，鴦掘利摩羅向佛陀喊道:「停下來！沙門！停下來！沙門！」

「我早已停下來了，鴦掘利摩羅！是你自己停不下來的。」

「你明明還在走，怎麼說已經停下來了呢！」

「鴦掘利摩羅！我早已停下傷害一切眾生的惡行了，而你還停不下來，繼續在造殺害眾生的惡業！」

這時，鴦掘利摩羅心想:「我是在做壞事嗎？為何我的老師告訴我，只要能殺滿一千人，將他們的手指頭串成飾鬘掛在身上，死後就能生天？眼前這位讓我怎樣追都追不上的人，一定是古書中所描述億劫難遇的如來解脫者了。」

想到這裡，鴦掘利摩羅趕緊丟掉身上的武器，對佛陀說:「世尊！但願允許我跟隨您出家當沙門。

佛陀接受了，對他說:「來吧，比丘！」

鴦掘利摩羅就這樣完成了出家的儀式，成為僧團的一份子。

然而，波斯匿王已經啟動了對鴦掘利摩羅的追緝。這天，國王領著五百兵騎出發，路過祇樹給孤獨園，便獨自入園內向佛陀請益。

佛陀問國王:「大王！你這次率領大軍，又要去攻打那個國家呢？」

「世尊！我要去緝拿那位殺人魔鴦掘利摩羅。」

「大王！如果鴦掘利摩羅已經隨我出家為比丘，你會對他怎樣？」

「世尊！那我只好像對其它比丘一樣，對他禮敬供養了。但這個大惡人沒有絲毫的善念，是不可能出家為比丘的。」

這時，佛陀舉起右手，指著不遠處樹下的鴦掘利摩羅，告訴波斯匿王:

「大王！那位就是鴦掘利摩羅。」

波斯匿王一聽，嚇得全身起疙瘩，僵在那兒。

佛陀告訴國王，鴦掘利摩羅已經不再是可怕的殺人魔了。

波斯匿王僵了一會兒，在冷靜下來後，走過去找鴦掘利摩羅，詢問他父母親的名字，證實了他的身分。於是，波斯匿王向鴦掘利摩羅表示，要供養他衣服、飲食、床坐、醫藥等生活用品。

然而，鴦掘利摩羅卻對波斯匿王說:「大王！我不缺什麼，我有出家人的三件衣服就夠了。」

波斯匿王深為感動，走回佛陀處，讚歎佛陀不以刀杖，就能降服這樣兇惡的人。

就這樣，鴦掘利摩羅過著乞食、在幽靜處修學的出家生活。一段時間後，終於證得了解脫，成為阿羅漢。

有一次，鴦掘利摩羅進城乞食，被人認出他就是過去的那一位殺人魔，城裡的人紛紛奔相走告，許多人都向他丟擲瓦塊、石頭，也有人拿刀追殺他。結果，鴦掘利摩羅被打得頭破血流，身上的衣服也被砍爛了。佛陀看見他這樣狼狽地回來，安慰他說:「鴦掘利摩羅！遇到別人打你，你要忍耐啊！因為你現在所受的，是之前所做罪業的報應，那是相當於幾千年的地獄報應呢。」

 

(A)Aṅgulimāla’s Enlightenment  

Looking into Aṅgulimāla’s story, here are some questions that can provoke other approaches towards the issue of “no the doer thereof” and as well can place it in the context of the time-space effect. Why could Aṅgulimāla the Murderer become enlightened after exchanging words with Buddha?  Because he had a clearer head? Or is it peculiar cultural background that Buddha can convince him?  

一、殺人魔鴦掘利摩羅得解脫

通過時空問題來看有「業報無作者」的「作者」，前面鴦掘利摩羅的殺人故事，提到一個重點，為什麼他當時聽到佛陀的提點就可以證果！ 是當時的他們腦袋特別清楚嗎？！還是什麽樣的文化內容，讓他們知道佛陀講的是對的。

 

Like Śāriputra, Maudgalyayana, and the other Buddha’s excellent disciples, they were so convinced that Buddha was right after listening to the basic principle of dependent origination, “Everything, arising or ceasing, is based on Nidānas.” None of them were divine beings to have superior comprehensibility.  Instead, accustoming does the job. They contemplated Śūnyatā and Nidānas constantly and thereby were adept in such topics.

舉例說明；佛陀帶的精英弟子如舍利佛、目揵蓮，當佛陀說「因緣所生，因緣所滅」，他們一聽就覺得佛陀講得內容性是對的，代表這一類觀點應該是他們很熟悉，而且常去探討的問題。所以佛陀的弟子們應該不是神人，而是對題目相當精熟的結果。

 

The concepts of karma will be elaborated. It is the main issue that is often mistaken as obstructions and then causes fearfulness.  As mentioned, karma was a force power, or the cause-and-effect of actions. Generally speaking, all virtuous and unvirtuous acts are the results of karma. I want to clarify again that karma is not necessarily all negative or passive. Both virtuous acts and unvirtuous acts can assist our progression as long as we then can find ways to overcome difficulties. So go easy on misdeeds. Don’t be too harsh with yourself and others. The relentless judgments on which act is/ isn’t virtuous are exhausting and impair. Dharma is useful. But if it departs from our daily practices, we must find another approach. Likewise, karma should work as an assisting power for our practices.

這一次要延伸的觀念是「業報」問題，業報在佛經裡面佔據重要的篇幅，在我們的人生裡面也是一個很大的問題，上次有跟大家說業報是一種運動，業報就是你造作好的行為跟造作不好行為的總稱，好的行為會對個人產生推升的能力，推著你往前；不好的行為會對你的行動產生阻力，阻擋你前進。這兩個問題如果可以講得明白，大家就能夠在碰到事情的時候，知道怎麼去解決，這是我講業報一個最初的觀念。佛學是要給人用的，當你想修行卻覺得路很遠的人，是否從其他觀點再切入。談到業報，大家都會覺得業報好像都是阻力進而會害怕，但是事實上，好的行為也產生推升的助力，所以不需要一天到晚對自己的行為感到害怕，或者當你聽了佛法的業力觀後，變成拿電子計算機成天計算自己的人，那樣子太累了！

 

I would like to use Aṅgulimāla’s case to examine the concept of karma. Aṅgulimāla wanted to learn a method of enlightenment and went to see a master who already had received others’ complaints about Aṅgulimāla’s inclination to stir up troubles. His master reckoned that Aṅgulimāla needed discipline to “fix” him.  In the earlier practices of Hinduism, the ascension into heaven is one of the goals. Accordingly, the master then told Aṅgulimāla that killing was the method for ascension.  Aṅgulimāla never doubted whatever his teacher told him. How come he could accept Gautama Buddha’s criticism of his teacher’s error? Have you ever reflected on this as an ordinary person to take criticisms?  Most people would become very defensive, even though they are constructive criticisms and wise words. Nevertheless, it is harder to take criticism and switch to different educations simultaneously and spontaneously.  Buddha can make Aṅgulimāla not only stop but also rethink what kind of education he received.

我先舉一個例子， 鴦掘利摩羅， 這個故事很多佛教徒都是耳熟能詳，還是聲明主要抽它的精神跟概念與大家分享就好。故事中說明央掘利魔羅這位修行者為了修行而去一個到道場， 印度本身有修行升天的宗教觀念 ，他在道場修行時跟道場中人發生恩怨而被告狀 ，鴦掘利摩羅的師父就想 ，這個傢伙有問題我來修理他，故事在前面裡面敘述的很詳盡。

各位有沒有想過 ，鴦掘利摩羅原來的老師叫他去殺人，他就去殺人，那為什麼佛陀告訴他說 ，「你殺人是不對的」他就可以接受 。我們一般人不太容易這樣 ，我們一般人相信一個指導者，甚至於是相信錯誤的教育時，都很難在轉瞬之間就可以去聽別人的智慧性語言，更何況進而做出判斷 ， 這個對於大多數人很難 ！

然而他看到佛陀以後，佛陀跟他說法要，卻讓央掘利摩羅心裡轉瞬間產生很大的反思， 他會想「難道我做錯了嗎？」

 

By reading this, we would always create the impression that Buddha is so powerful that he changes the killer Aṅgulimāla’s mind spontaneously.

I have always doubted since I became a sangha. How well could we read between the lines? Did we tend to interpret Aṅgulimāla’s story in a way to divinize Buddha’s greatness?  Has the divinization of Buddha been taken for granted?

我修行以來，一直覺得我們在看佛經時犯一個很大的錯誤 ，那就是一直在紙上做文章 ，紙上做文章的意思是說；這是一個故事， 佛陀很偉大 ，所以當央掘利摩羅看到佛陀時，自然會被佛陀感化， 是不是大家都這樣想！

 

Have any of you ever gone mountain climbing? The view of surrounding mountains would make one think and feel differently from standing on the plain. Similarly, if we have any chance to come near Buddha, we would all be influenced by his power that reflects his practice. For instance, I had similar astonishment in my earlier sangha age when I came to see Master GuangQin.  He gave me the impression that he was walking above ground as if he had practiced Chin- Kung, a kind of Chinese martial art. But in fact, he was just an ordinary monk. There was nothing for him to do with Shaolin Temple’s martial art. But the power of his practice had shaped his body from within and made his walking look so unusual. He didn’t have to utter any word, and simply standing by his side, I couldn’t help feeling touched.

不知道各位有沒有去爬高山的經驗 ，人到高山裡面 ，高山會帶給你不一樣的感覺 ，跟平地是絕對不一樣的！那你站在佛陀的旁邊 ，也會受佛陀一定的道力影響你的想法 ，像我早年出家 ，看過廣欽老和尚 ，廣欽老和尚在走路的時候， 就像練過輕功 ，但他也不是少林寺出來的，根本沒有練過輕功，是他的修道促成的肉身， 讓他的肉身看起來就是不一樣，你站在他身邊就會有一種莫名的感動， 那整個都是廣老給你的感覺，他都不要跟你說什麼，你就覺得很感動 。

 

Such was the case with Aṅgulimāla. He might have a stronger feeling than I had. So he would immediately surrender to the atmosphere that was created by Buddha’s incredible practice.  Maybe Aṅgulimāla always admired those who have great achievements and perceived that Buddha was one of a kind only described in the text. All of a sudden, he was moved by the atmosphere and absorbed himself in Buddha’s words. In the meantime, he created a space for self-reflection.

我相信央掘利摩羅對於佛陀也是這種感覺！鴦掘利摩羅心裏想這個人是不是像古代經典形容的，有人修持很好時，他表現會不一樣， 那我是不是碰到這樣的成就者！所以他應該是被現場，當時佛陀給他的那種氛圍，就好像我們看到得道高僧的那種感動 ，鴦掘利摩羅轉瞬之間被感動 了！所以在那個時候佛陀給他的一點指點， 會讓他覺得「我是不是應該想一想他跟我講的話，或許我做的是錯的」。

 

Without a doubt, this is an incredible story and Buddha’s power is immeasurably greater than expected.  We should read between the lines and read them in the context that reflects on Buddhist practices. As seeing that Guang-Qin had attained such achievement via practice, I was speechless. I believe such is the case with Aṅgulimāla.  Buddha’s glorious attainment made him feel ashamed.  What am I doing here; why can he attain great achievement? The doubt opened Aṅgulimāla’s mind.  Then he became a disciple of Buddha and sincerely regretted over past mistakes and deeply changed his misdeeds.

一個故事 ，如果看書面上的文字容易就這樣解讀過去 ，你會覺得因為佛陀很偉大 ，所以在祂身邊發生的事情都是可能且是不可思議的！

事實上不要這麼看 ，有時候我們要想到現場的氛圍 ，像我們親身看過廣欽老和尚， 都會覺得 這修行者為什麼可以修到這個程度，很可怕！他跟我一樣是一個肉體 ，他卻可以修到這樣的程度， 這種感動是沒有辦法用紙筆去形容的 ，那只有現場看過才懂 ，我相信央掘利摩羅就是這樣。所以佛陀的修道能力，還有佛陀的指點 ，讓他覺得我可能真的在做錯的事，所以他願意悔改就跟著佛陀出家。

 

King Pasenadi got goosebumps because of the intimidation by Buddha’s power and Aṅgulimāla incredible determination. It is a plain expression that would only create a gap between the literal meaning and the actual scene.  So we have to try to put ourself in King Pasenadi’s shoes. Why is he so frightened!

當波斯匿王看到後嚇到起雞皮疙瘩， 他實在不能相信 殺九百九十九個人的惡魔跟佛陀出家修行，我們如果看文字形容是不會怎樣，但如果身處那種場面可想而知，所以連波斯匿王都嚇到了 ！

 

Here is another ponderable question regarding Aṅgulimāla’s enlightenment. How come a killer with so much bad karma has a clear mind to accept wise instruction?  Bad karma can be judgment hinders.  After committing such serious crimes, it is very strange that Aṅgulimāla’s brain did not get stuck!

這邊有一個點要注意，像央掘利摩羅這樣的人跟隨佛陀修法，也證阿羅漢果 ，這是一個比較值得探討的重點，為什麼可以在殺這麼多人以後，他的大腦還可以對智慧性的教學起判斷 ！能夠聽懂佛陀在跟他說什麼，一般 我們沒有辦法聽智慧性的語言，通常是我們大腦障礙塞了很多雜亂資訊，很難聽得懂智慧性的語言在告訴我們什麼 ，但是他殺了那麼多人以後，他大腦不會被塞住嗎 ？這就是一個問題！

 

After Aṅgulimāla became an arhat, the family members of his murder victims would like to beat him and scold him to death as long as spotting him in Sāvatthī. But he had to collect alms in the village.  Every time when he returned, he got his head cracked and bleeding, his bowl broken, and his outer robe torn. However, Buddha asked him to put up with people’s revenge and attacks as repaying the debt of his felony. All of the karma results might come along with him even though he had attained arhathood.  Enlightenment can reduce the suffering but the debt will keep him reincarnation for maybe thousands of years or many lifetimes.  Focusing on the immediate karma in his current life, he might fear the revenge and then ask fellows to bring him food. But Aṅgulimāla rather chose to face it and take it fearlessly. 

   Master Ban Ji

   Translated by Ken Kraynak     

(Translated by Hui-tun Chuang and Grace Jui-hsin Tsai)      

(Proofread by Sophia Fang-chun Kuo)

再來鴦掘利摩羅雖然成就阿羅漢果位，他進去城裡乞食的時候 ，被過去被害的家屬認出來，親戚朋友開始打罵他 ！每次出去托缽不是頭破血流，就是衣服都被扯破 ，但是佛陀安慰他說你要忍耐，這是你自造的業，你自造的業可以讓你再投生為人時一直糾纏著你，要到達幾千年，但是你現在仗持四聖果的能量而重罪輕受。現世報，我們講的現世報！ 我們來看央掘利摩羅要如何擺平他的業障，用現世報的方式完成！ 看來央掘利摩羅很有魄力沒有跑掉 ，他也可以求助別人帶食物回來給他，不再出門托缽 ，但是沒有，他還是自己出去托缽 ！

空 "Śūnyatā" 2

 

“The results of karma exist, but not the doer thereof” in Buddhism 2

 

Do you agree that they are different between who committed a crime before and confess after? The truth is, to repent or not, both would not be able to change the fact, and likewise, not be able to change the result of karma. Let’s put the repentance issue into this way by taking the killer and the repenter as the same person, the repenter possesses intentions to change karma. In this sense, repentance is in vain because karma is created.  Karma is also a result of the actions, instead of the doer, which means the results of karma exist. The killer and the repenter are no one in terms of who can seize the time. Literally, there are no doers in the passage of time. The explanation of this scripture in Chinese is very difficult to comprehend, for me as well as reading it in the beginning, but I rather apply analogies and our common sense to make a better understanding. In brief, it is trying to explain the issue of time and space in Buddhadharma.

有業報無作者2

若殺人之前的那個你沒起懺悔心，但現在的你起懺悔心，已不是之前的你，是不？廣義來講，不管你要不要懺悔，時空會走會變化，也產生業力；不是時空流逝，你做的事就可以不算，所做事情還是有業報！這個點解釋起來非常複雜，古代更用文言文來解釋，我看得很辛苦，現在解釋起來你們是不是比較容易清楚，佛法裡面一直有時空的概念。

 

According to modern astronomy, the light of a star explosion we see now is actually taken place in the past, or maybe four or five hundred years ago in the Ming Dynasty. In this sense, you should have a right to mock the repenter’s intentions of going back to the scene of the crime and to do something about it. Now looking at the sky, the advances in astronomy are telling you the force power of the past events, such as a star that exploded in the Ming Dynasty is still transmitting its energy so that we can see it today. Isn’t it interesting?

近代天文學已知，我們「現在」用望遠鏡所看到的星體爆炸光，事實上是「過去」明代的星體爆炸產生的，發生時間點是明代。

如果有一個修行人跟你說，你明代殺一個人，他現在還在追蹤你，你相信嗎？你一定覺得是笑話！

但是現在用已知的科學證據告訴你，明代爆炸的一顆星星光芒是你現在還看得到的，過去事件的能量到現在還存在！這個就很有意思。

 

How can people with good karma continue to move forward? It depends on whether they can dispossess their Karmic results. Is anyone willing to eliminate the fruits of hard work?Not only are you reluctant, but also I am. I plant lots of trees in my garden and know planting is a hardship. Dispossession is nonsense and a big joke. But I reflect upon Buddha’s teachings carefully and contemplate that fruit (Karmic results) gets rotten with time.  The Karmic results would do their own term.   

我們有福報的人，你怎麼樣再保持前進？就要看有沒能力拋捨果實。

果實，誰捨得拋捨？！工作都很辛苦，不要說你們，我常常在種樹，我也知道那個辛苦，叫我拋捨，哪有可能？在說笑話嗎？ 但若以我們從佛經得到的佛法理解來講，是有這個可能，就算你再捨不得果實，歷經時空變化，它也會自己壞掉，！

 

Ching-te:  Does karma have timelines? Does it take time to fruition?

Ban Ji:   No, karma does not have fixed timelines.

俊得: 業報有時間性對不對？

半寄師父: 業報沒有時間性，沒有固定的時間性！

 

Ching-te:

That means that you kill a person, you will be punished or need to pay him back, but may not be immediately in this lifetime, right?

Ban Ji:  Yes. Revenge is not under this discussion.

Ching-te: The karma takes time to fruition, confirmed!

Ban Ji:  Yes, it does.

俊得: 你殺一個人，你要受這個殺人的業報，但不會我殺一個人， 我馬上就死了吧？

半寄師父: 不會，所以我說業報沒有時間性！（報復性質不列入考慮）

俊得: 業報要成熟不是要有時間性？

師父: 有。

 

Ching-te:

In this sense, taking the factor of time into account, what about applying timeline to “the doer”? The original doer has already changed into a new one along with the time flows. Therefore, could I say that Buddha expresses “not the doer thereof” in the context of the factor of time?

俊得: 既然業報要成熟要有時間性，那就要加入一個時空的因素在裡面，既然業報要成熟有時間性，假以時間以後的那個作者，事實上跟原來的作者也夾雜了時空的變化去了，所以他要闡述「無作者」，是不是要講這個意思？

 

Ban Ji:

I would prefer to let you put “the result of karma exists” in the first place. It is a dilemma if to explain karma and doer altogether. Your statement indicates that doer and karma are both presented. But as the answer, “doer” is not considered presenting or representing. Think about a further question---how could karma be carried out by no-doer?

半寄師父: 但是要有業報！這個很難闡述，很困難，困難在這裡，你這樣講很清楚， 但是業報怎麼實現呢？

 

Ching-te:

It takes time for karma taken into effect. For example, the killer may win a lottery in ten years later and thus repays fifty million dollars for the victim’s past life. Or maybe he will need to use his life as redemption. The killer’s abilities and circumstances keep changing with time and space, and thereby so do karmic debts accordingly. Because the doer keeps changing, namely, there is no fixed subject of the doer.

俊得: 業報需要時間來實現。我舉個例，搞不好那個人在十年之後中了大樂透，拿著錢說希望過去那事情你不要再追殺我了，我五億給你，請你就接受吧；或者是，之後他過得更糟糕，所以他要承受這個殺人的業報。五年後、十年後的他已經改變了！所以對作者來講，本身承受業報已經跟原來不一樣，所以不能講有固定的作者 ，因為作者也隨著時空改變。

 

Ban Ji:

You can say so. Winning a lottery is passive in dealing with problems. Let’s discuss a broader issue on how to improve conditions to avoid misdeeds. When a boy is misled to steal by the false education, he might take stealing for granted. He did not acknowledge what criminal behavior is. But stealing is wrongdoing in common sense. Therefore, as a repayment for the boy’s stealing case is concerned, education should play a role to correct his misconception and thus misdeeds, shouldn’t it? Who should take the accountability for stopping misdeeds since the boy is also a victim of false education?

半寄師父:

這樣講也是，不過大樂透這個比喻比較狹義，應該用廣義講，如果有個人出生的環境裡面就教導他作做小偷是對的，而導致他去偷別人的財物，都覺得是理所當然的，根本不認為是個大錯誤，那要救贖這個錯誤的認知，是不是只能用教育去改變他？

正確的教育方法改變他，他才能知道不行，這個行為是錯的。他也不是出於他本意要偷，被教育錯誤這筆帳怎麼算？

 

We may extend ideas of “no doer” to the case. It is more appropriate to discuss how education as the subject matter can correct what the boy used to do wrong instead of who he was. The boy may acknowledge stealing is wrong and thus stop stealing. Hopefully, he may further contribute his efforts to society as a whole. As he strives to progress, the ten-year-old boy no longer exists. He gets reborn by good education.

Cognitive change via education can lead the boy to a transformation. Perhaps his transformation can bring him good karma in terms of playing a role model for social changes. He is no longer the same boy, but people might still blame him. He suffers adversity and hatred.  The karmic force of stealing comes back around, but the boy is changing. What else remains unchangeable if the doer stayed put? After shedding light on the aspect of time-space to Buddha’s teachings like the above, I believe that there are fewer obstacles in life.

所以被教化的那個人，如果要說「無作者」，應該就他錯誤範圍去做再教育的改善，這是比較廣義的，那他之前沒被正確教育的人生，再度因教育而重生。

正確的教育可以產生不同的認知。十歲以前被教當小偷是對的，十歲以後被教那是錯的，如果被教導者在被教導後行為改變，不再當小偷，還可能運用很大的力量去改善社會環境正確的認知。

隨著你在做的時空過程裡面，你離你那個十歲已越來越遠，那當時那個十歲的你在哪裡？當然不在了！

哪是否可以說過去被他偷過的人都因為他現在做了很多善事，大家保證不恨他？ 不可能的！所以還是會有偷竊的業報在反應，但這個作者，作者不斷在改變他自己的內涵不斷在更新，作者會改變，如果這個作者是不變的，那就是在原地踏步，停留在原來的時空，有這個可能嗎 ？

所以，若加入了「時空」來探討佛學，以我們剛才舉例的，如果可以看到你自己的事情糾結，你用這些比較廣義的想法去看、去想的話，我認為是可以解決自身的一些問題，這是我的看法。

 

Ching-te:

Life itself is just like a waterfall, as a matter of fact, we are going forward. Whatever we have gone through, ups or downs, life has to proceed on.

俊得:

師父，而且就現實生活來講，根本就停不住啊，你想停你也停不住，就像瀑布一樣，你要停你也停不住，你要嘛向前走，向上走，向下走，你根本就沒有辦法停，你還是一直在往前！

 

Ban Ji:

Right. That is why the CEO of our foundation brings up the issue of liberation that life attaches emotions.  The stronger attachment, the harder emancipation.The Heart Sutra starts out with "When Bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara was profoundly practicing Prajna Paramita” implying that as a follower we should frequently contemplate śūnyatā and dependent origination. Realizing the dharma in depth will set us free.  That is really a practice. Try to constantly remind yourself to avoid emotional traps.  Happiness, anger, sadness, and joy should flow with the passage of time, instead of stagnation. That is my own method of staying vigilant against emotional stagnation. Day after day, we will get used to it but won’t feel every day is all the same.

半寄師父:

沒有錯，但是剛才執行長講的問題，等於是說，個人去做事情後產生的喜怒哀樂打在心裏是很難解脫的！坦白講，佛經，在《般若心經》時講到 「行深般若波羅蜜多」，「行深」經文的意思是希望你在聽到佛法以後，你的大腦能常常去思考「空與有」的問題，思考這樣的問題，接受這樣的佛法，進而得到某一種程度的解脫！所以叫作「行深」不是隨便聽一聽。然後，就叫修行了嗎？

不是這樣！事實上你的大腦不斷要提醒你自己，用佛法提醒自己的感官感受才不會在你日常生活裡面有的喜怒哀樂裏停滯。

我講的是一種實修的例子，一旦喜怒哀樂停留，而我們不自覺，日子一天一天過去人們會覺得記憶停留在一定的時空嗎？

不會！因為已經慣性了！

 

Memory becomes strong attachments that are the fundamental problem. How to manage memory and the emotion of the past so that they can move on with time? Applying Buddhadharma to cultivate your brain is the way to attain wisdom and helps overcome obstructions to some extent. Once you find the method to overcome obstacles, it is hard for you not to progress.

In my practice experience, Buddhadharma will wake up our brain when feelings couldn’t move forward.

時間在運轉，其中只有人們感情記憶沒過去，你如何設法讓你的記憶過去？大腦要常常去作對佛法的思維，常常去想！此時你的大腦在思維佛法中已經在邁向智慧的一步，它在某種程度上幫助你解脫原來的滯留點，你的滯留點一旦得到解脫，你這個人不進步也難！實修經驗告訴我們大腦在思維或觀察佛法時，會知道個人的感情是停留的！

 

Prof. Atun:

To a large extent, applying the concept of change only to karma is less complicated than to the existence of the doer.  As far as the changing of time-space is concerned, there is no such a good-bad dichotomy assigned to karma Rightness may turn into wrongness and vice versa. That is what we got the lessons from the history.  Why do we put the problem of karma on the top? It is easier to solve the issue of time-space without troubling ourselves the existence of doer.

阿惇老師: 把時空變遷的議題帶到業報裡討論比較容易，因為業報存在，但會因為時空變遷，所以業報沒有固定善惡之別，過去是錯的後來變成對的，或者本來認為是對的後來變成錯的，那怎麼不談業報本身在時空下是不定性的？

 

Ban Ji:

We need to analyze three milieus that may lead to misdeeds; first, false educations for misbehavior; second, personality traits motivate greed, anger, and ignorance. For instance, stealing is a result of greed and personal vanity. Thirdly, the karmic force that keeps people in the life cycle up and down. All consist of good times and bad times.  For instance, when going through bad times, one would be more likely to do wrong involuntarily. Upon these three conditions, the first step is to identify which background gives rise to the misdeed. Then we can discuss karma. Is it the problem of education, personality trait, or the so-called life cycle? There are ups and downs in life. It depends on the life cycle, all men are mortal, and things will end and then come to the next period/ life (in samsara (cycle of life and death)). Every life and death is temporary. We can overcome our obstacles and mistakes by distinguishing which stage we are standing and then striving to improve for a better future.

半寄師父: 談這個要分析很多，第一、我是被教育教錯去做的；第二、我自己的貪嗔癡促使我去做的，我喜歡的東西，沒有錢我去偷，自己的貪欲促使自己去做的；第三、佛學最終還提到一個人既使再富有，他的生命週期到了也會結束！

以這三個點來講，自己必須搞清楚自己處於這三個點的哪個點，被教育錯的？自己的貪欲？還是處在一種所謂大週期？大周期就是自己福報的週期必須先結束，像生命的暫時結束。

 

Doers and action (the results of karma) have reciprocal impacts on each other.  In other words, those who stand high have ever gotten a broader view, whereas suffering from failure may bring themselves different visions. Changes for the better. The constant interaction between doer and karmic results indicates that the source of life is un-determinedness and movability.

    Master Ban Ji

      Translated by Ken Krayna

作者與運動(業報)之間相互產生變化，現實的比喻是；站上高處的人們會看到高處的風光，而有挫折的人們也會在失敗裡面看到再出發的方法。作者與運動相互連結的不斷產生變化，賦予人們各種不定性，卻也是最大的生命泉源!

半寄