Karma in different cultures: Aṅgulimāla,
Jutsun Milarepa, Yuán-zé 3
Here is a point to consider. When facing an
obstacle, will you be patient enough to overcome it and will be able to apply Dharma
to solve the problem? I am no wiser than you when dealing with obstacles. I
have to resolve the difficulty step by step. To me, dealing with the
psychological hindrance is the difficult part when repaying karmic debts. We
are subject to impatience and emotional hijacking that might get rise to
irrational reactions. As a result, few
can find ways to overcome emotional hindrances, and even fewer can pay off
their karmic debts. Therefore, I believe practitioners who have patiently
survived trials and successfully paid off their debts are usually outstanding
among the crowd, regardless of lay people or monks.
我要請問一個問題， 你們想要化解一個阻力有多少耐心去應對？如果有一個阻力產生在你眼前，你有多少耐性、或有多少能力可以運用佛法，慢慢去通過那些阻力，應對阻力我也沒有比各位高明，也是一步一腳印走！ 我個人覺得「還業障」裡面最大的困難在於阻力的化解，在阻力裡面會形成情緒讓我們不耐煩，會讓我們情緒爆炸、讓我們喪失理智，所以在阻力裡面能化解的人不多，還要去還債的人更少 。我個人認為有耐力還債的修行者，包括出家，在家，通常會是在人群裡面成功的人物！。
As removing obstacles gets involved with psychological
hindrances, there are two common misconceptions, yet working as an influential
guide to our reactions. The first one is a virtuous person is supposed to deserve
and encounter only good things. No matter how things end up, whether well or
not, virtuous people would deserve, in the sense of karmic results, to get
rewards instead of obstacles. Good karma brings about prosperity. But if things
do not turn out good enough for a virtuous person, complaints or doubts about
discrepancy between doing good and getting rewards will occur. Whether one is a
virtuous person or not is to a great extent under a self-enforcing measurement.
面對阻力的障礙還要思考到心理層面，最常碰到的兩種觀點也是左右人群的大關鍵，一種是；我是好人，碰到任何事情都是以好人的觀點去想，這是華人的文化，在華人世界成長就自然有這樣的本能，是吸收文化特質的自然反應。比如；碰到好事就想自己是好人，當然有好報，碰到不好的也想自己是好人怎麼會發生不好的事情？而所謂好人也不過是自訂的標準。
Some people even attribute their obstacles to
feng shui, even when getting scammed. Such a reaction is the embodiment of
Chinese culture. However, Buddhist practitioners should not follow cultural
intuition over Buddha’s teaching. Those who can defend themselves from cultural
indoctrination are as clear-headed as Śāriputra.
還有人碰到詐騙竟自認是家裡風水不好！這也是華人文化的本能，想前進的佛學者必需看到這些點，為什麼碰到事情的直覺反應是文化的本能，那佛法教育在腦袋的哪裡？！想到這些案例就知道舍利佛他們的腦裏是什麼樣的資源。
Secondly, the misconception refers to the
liberation from the guilt of misdeeds which develops the notion of original sin
and vice versa. The vicious circle is thus formed. As mentioned in the previous
three examples, they illustrate that hindrances/ karmic debts can be well-utilized
as an impetus.
If there is no more question, I shall move
on to the next topic in Sutra No. 335 (313) of the Saṃyuktāgama
那另一種是：我做錯事了有可能再解脫嗎 ？做錯事又變成原罪思想， 但是做錯事變成原罪一直背負，其實都不對的！應該去探討一下比較好，很多事情連阻力都可能變成你的助力，但是要怎麼應用才是一個關鍵 。所以我舉了這三個例子 ，如果沒有問題的話，我們就要解釋335經的下一個經文 。
I would like to add a point to the story of
“three-lifetime stone.” The sentimentality between Yuán-zé and Li-yuan seems an
embedded culture in the Han-Chinese society that attracts my attention in order
to understand karma. But my attention
shifted, which connotes different levels. When first read the verse “the old
souls on the three-lifetime stone”, I was amazed by its beautiful words. But I later
found out it is awful for the practice of Buddhism. The form of literature
embellishes karmic relationships and hides our attempts of evasion as well. The
evasion prolongs the karmic entanglement that might take longer than three
lifetimes or at least 150 years in total, saying Yuán-zé could live 50 years in
each of his lifetimes.
Reflecting upon the problem of time-consuming,
we have to reconsider why we have to spend triple the lifetime to resolve our
karmic issues than other people do in only one lifetime. That is why I switch
my attention from literary beauty to Buddhist practice.
不過我補充一點，因為我們都是華人，在血液裡面大概都有三生石這種感情 ，像圓澤禪師跟李源那種多情，所以我後來在修道裡面，會特別留意這種文學式的感情。讀過書而又想逃避，我們可能會用文學式的詞彙去把我們的逃避掩飾好，用詩詞歌賦掩飾掉，「三生石上舊精魂 」，用文學的角度去看， 這個典故事實上很美，但是用修行的角度看，其實都不可愛， 因為那已經是三世了， 三世是多少時間，古人活50年好了，三世 150年 ，別人50年就解決了，我要花150年，想到這裡就得深思一下！我就是這樣看待這件事 。以前剛看到那個「三生石上舊精魂」的時候，都覺得好美後來都覺得好差，哈！
Chun-te Yang:
Aṅgulimāla killed 999 people. Jetsun
Milarepa destroyed the crops. Both of their mistakes were obvious. But what did
Yuán-zé and Li-yuan do wrong? What were their karmic debts?
俊得: 央掘利摩羅殺了999個人， 這個業報很清楚，密勒日巴大師毀壞別人的田，業報很清楚， 那子源跟圓澤， 他們的業報是在哪裡？
Ban Ji:
Karmic debts are beyond discussion in this
case. In the story, it was explicit that Yuán-zé foresaw his future and tried
hard to avoid reincarnation, but on the contrary, he kept Li-yuan in the dark. Li-yuan just went on a trip with him and
couldn’t foresee what would happen next. However, the reason why Yuán-zé
avoided reincarnation was unknown to us. As stated in the story, he had already known what
would be coming to him after reincarnation to the new family. Is the outcome
good or bad? That is about personal
preferences, and we had no clues to understand it thoroughly.
The point is that he had the ability but chose
to avoid undesirable karmic relationships. We are to a great extent likewise
choosing to hold on to the desirable karmic relationships. It is not so difficult to understand why we meet
certain people in our lives. People come to our lives for a reason such as
spouse, parents, and children. It is easy to understand why karma is tangible
and logical.
半寄師父: 這個無法討論業報，故事中說：圓澤禪師知道他自己的事情，而子源不知道 ，圓澤禪師知道他在避開什麼， 為什麼他不想再去投胎，子源是不知道的 ！只是跟他去玩 ，怎麼知道就碰到這些事，你看圓澤禪師很明顯在避開一些他清楚的事， 比如說；他可能看到自己為什麼投胎去那一個家庭的因緣 ，或是說他要去的那個家族是不是對他有什麼不利？我們都不知道，但是圓澤禪師知道 ，像個人的隱私我們無從全盤了解。
我要講的是，你看他知道有什麼不好的前途在等他 ，但是他是用逃避的方法。
各位如果延伸這個問題，你跟某人相見會自認覺得有緣 ，有緣好像很抽象對不對？！ 其實不會 ，有緣是一種必然性， 必然性就是說你跟你的先生跟你的太太跟你的小孩之間有一種緣份，那是必然性 ，他才要來跟你生活在一起 ，所以緣份如果把它研究到底，它不會是一個很抽象的意義。
Derrick:
I think Yuán-zé could just leave without saying anything or not making appointments with Li-yuan. He could choose to be a little bit free and relaxed.
Ban Ji:
Yes, I think so, too. For this, I
just want to point out the difference between each method. Then it is up to you
to choose how to repay your karmic debts.
純德: 師父請教一下， 圓澤禪師如果瀟灑一點 ，也不用跟李源告別 ，也不用跟他說你三天後來看我，我會對你笑 ，13年後你來天竺寺前面跟我相會，他如果瀟灑一點 ，他就什麼都不說走了就走了！
半寄師父: 是啊，我也覺得應該是這樣 ，那你們自己比較看看，看還業障你要選擇哪一種方式自己選 ，我只是敘述讓各位清楚。
Chao-hsiang Hung:
Why would Aṅgulimāla still feel pain? Should
all enlightened arhats transcend into the state of ease and free? Is it because
of his crime of killing 999 people?
招祥師兄: 師父請教一下，證阿羅漢果的聖者不是都應該很輕安自在了嗎？怎麼央掘利摩羅還會痛苦，是不是因為他殺了999個人？
Ban Ji:
Do not over-divinize the state of enlightenment
to the extent. That is not a truth that an enlightened saint can work without a
human body. When karma remains, the body remains. Aṅgulimāla used his body strength
to conduct murders, and then still
used the same body to practice to attain arhathood.
That is, it is the same body that makes misdeeds and virtuous acts. All of the
karma results still came along with Aṅgulimāla even though he had attained
arhathood. He still got his head cracked and bleeding, his bowl broken, and his
outer robe torn when he went out for alms. Therefore, karma doesn’t end up with
the attaining of enlightenment. Otherwise, one will die as soon as he attains
enlightenment.
Moreover, according to the cycle of cause
and effect, karma has no timeline. The karmic results may suspend, like fruits
getting ripen at different times and maybe modifying in forms. That is, “the suspended
karmic result” has diverse traits. It takes
time to fruition. In addition, location does not matter. Conducting acts and then receiving their
effect might not necessarily take place in the same spot or region. Likewise, those who are familiar with Dharma also need
more time to understand all the classified contents of karma.
半寄師父: 喔！不要把證果神聖到人跟肉體都不見了。至少央掘利摩羅之前的殺人動作事實還沒清理完畢。他是一個人， 他去殺人的時候， 是一個很強壯的男人肉體， 他證阿羅漢果時也是一個比丘且有很強壯的肉體，同樣一個肉體一個造惡業、一個造善業，都是同ㄧ人， 阿羅漢果是央掘利摩羅的道果。但他身體同樣承載著業力、阻力，所以他去托缽的時候會被打得頭破血流 ，還是他的肉體在承受痛苦， 你不能說證聖果了一切都不存在？ 那他當下就得入滅。
還有佛法提到異熟果果實的成熟問題(異熟果:A地方做的事情不一定在A地方產生效應)，一位再聰慧的修行者今日聽懂佛法也要ㄧ些時間才能熟悉果位的內涵。
Of course, there is a case that can
associate enlightenment with physical body transcendence. Transcendence only relies
on the proficiency of practices acquired before enlightenment. In other words,
entering a deep meditative stage and the four stages of awakening from
Srotāpanna to attaining arhathood are all based on proficiency in practicing
and knowing what consists of the four awakening stages. The phases of awakening
are laid out for a reason that underlines why Dharma is emphasizing not only Arhathood
or Nirvana but also everything in order from the cultivation of virtuous root all
the way to the full awakening. Most people may have the misconception of
enlightenment that everything disappears or reaches the top level as soon as one
gets enlightened. However, neither of them is possible. The outcomes are presented on the basis of
personal engagement, time, and effort to practice.
難道今天證果今天就可以讓靈魂離開肉體 ，是有，但那是之前修行的熟悉度造成的。就連入定也是練習來的，證悟從初果到阿羅漢果，一定需要對聖果內涵的熟悉，不然佛法就直接提及阿羅漢果跟涅槃就好，何必要講從善根修行到四聖果。
不可能一下子就到達頂端，這是對證悟的錯解，很多人都覺得修行好像一下子就什麼都不存在，一切都可以超然，抱歉沒有這種事！修行也是按時間、按個人的努力在呈現的。
The old karma remains even after one
becomes an arhat. That is the connotation of the sutra “When this Skandhas /cause
ceases, a different Skandhas/ cause arises and continues.” However, since an
enlightened arhat is no longer an ordinary person, taking Jetsun Milarepa as an
example, his severe infection of relapsed abscesses and bleeding may lead ordinary
people to death. What power backed him up to survive body sufferings? I think it
is his sincerity in repaying the debts that resolves entanglement. A man makes
his way. Sincerity is the best way of practice.
其實在一個阿羅漢修行者身上同樣存在之前的業報，所以叫「此陰滅已，異陰相續]（此因滅已，異因相續）誰都逃不了
!但是，你看到那個能證果的修行者到底不是一般人，以密勒日巴尊者而言，像我們現在的人一個傷口沒有好動不動就感染往生！而密勒日巴尊者他身上那個爛瘡好了又爛，他怎麼沒往生啊？是什麼力量支撐密勒日巴尊者，所以我總認為路都是給人走的，如果真的產生了很大的誠意希望把這一切的恩怨做一個了結，相信會開出一條路來，所以密勒日巴尊者的肉身可以安度那些痛苦的日子還讓他成就道業。
I must admit I am not brave enough to
endure all these sufferings since we are fragile in nature. However, I am motivated
and encouraged to progress steadily step by step after reading the stories of
Buddhist masters. So it is a good choice to read Memoirs of Eminent Monks and
find the courage to proceed on.
不過若說讓我的身體被這般折磨，我也沒有勇氣，我們在人性裡面其實都很脆弱，我個人都是依靠祖師大德的故事，讓我增強勇氣一步一步的讓自己站穩，有時候看看高僧傳也不錯，也是一種激勵。
Chih-ying:
Karmic debts may make the brain stuck. May the hindrance, be not only coming from outside, but also more likely embedded within our consciousness?
Ban Ji:
Right, it lies in the body and appears in various
forms. It may sometimes become illness in our body or may sometimes turn into obstacles
and all kinds of hindrances in dealing with things. But I want to propose that
sincerity can make the way. So don’t worry about making mistakes since men are fragile
and entitled to errors. As long as one is willing to face the music and take
responsibility, he will always make his way.
致穎: 師父請教一下，業報有可能讓大腦塞住， 所以那個阻力有可能是在你意識裡面，不是純粹外來的阻力。
半寄師父: 是的，會存在於肉體，應該也是多樣性的，有時候會在自己的身體發生障礙，或者做事情都不順利還有其他種種牽絆，講到這個我還是要講，真心誠意去做會開出一條路來 ，所以大家不用擔心，所有的人都會做錯，人性是很脆弱的。但是做錯了以後， 只要願意把自己的錯承擔起來， 你在承擔時候就開出一條路了！
Chun-te Yang:
May I bother to ask one more question? In your opinion, is it impossible that a first-degree felony faces a very little penalty?
Ban Ji:
Aṅgulimāla provides a fine example. Aṅgulimāla was charged with the 999 murders! Can you imagine penalty imposing on him accordingly? But he was so sincere and voluntary to repay his crime as to mitigate the penalty.
Chun-te Yang: Right, he only got beaten up.
俊得: 師父再問一個問題，耽誤一點時間，師父剛提到基本上沒有重罪輕受？
半寄師父: 有啊！像央掘利摩羅就重罪輕受，但是你要承擔的起啊999個 人耶，不就重罪輕受了!
俊得: 就是他只是被打而已。
Ban Ji:
I want to propose another concept. It is
wrong to say an eye for an eye in repaying debts, which results in nothing but
hatred. For example, consider this, as many people were killed in World War I
and II, all the killed reincarnate to take revenge on the killer by killing. If
revenge were good, wars would be launched again and again. There is no peaceful
place for us to live. People had found a better way to exchange revenge with compensation,
such as Japan’s unconditional surrender. Unconditional surrender is the
ultimate punishment. Should we ask for more?
There is always a solution to make up for
the loss and mistakes, but no way back to the original condition. There is no
equilibrium one-cause-and-one-effect formula in Buddhist scriptures. Buddhism
is more reasonable for the reality. “An eye for an eye” will only result in
endless unbearable pain, and no one can live under the cruel circumstance. So, it
is nonsense to ask why Aṅgulimāla didn’t repay 999 lives.
半寄師父: 我們再講一個概念，不要有一報還一報的概念，那是錯的！ 我們說:殺一個人還一個人的命這種想法只有仇恨。我請問你一個問題：第一次世界大戰跟第二次世界大戰都死那麼多人，如果大家都要報仇，那每個國家都還要再殺一次？！是不是，但你想有可能嗎?
人可能發生這種事嗎？大家都不要過日子嗎?人會尋求其他的方法來補償！像日本無條件投降也是一種補償， 無條件了那你還要怎樣?
人們會去尋求其他的條件來挽回造成的錯誤、罪過 ，而不是用原來同樣的條件去還那個業障。要有這個概念!不然一因一果，殺一個人再還殺一個人，會沒完沒了!
佛經裡面原則上也不講一因一果，一因一果殺來殺去，人可能承受這麼巨大的痛苦嗎？！ 不可能，所以不要問我為什麼央掘利摩羅不用還999條人命，因為這樣的還債方法大家都沒有辦法生存！
Zōng- běn:
I think Aṅgulimāla aimed to learn the method of enlightenment but turned out to be misled to kill 1000 people. According to Nidānas, his teacher was the one who should be blamed and owed more karmic debts than Aṅgulimāla.
Ban Ji:
The evil teacher who intended to mislead
him with false education had collective karma that he must suffer too. “Collective karma” refers to the cooperation
among different people. However, two or
more people might take part in the same project; for example, they would be
likely to get a wide range of consequences in terms of virtuous or un-virtuous
karma by each person’s psychological disposition and mental reaction. In other words, collective karma will
respectively modify into individual karma.
Living
in a more complex society, we tend to stay in school longer and take more time
to grow into mature adults. So, we are more likely to be misled by false
education until knowing that we are wrong in what we are doing. But the
awareness might come from learning too.
宗本: 師父，我覺得他是拜一個大師要教他修法，卻讓他去殺1000個人，所以我覺得以因緣所生來看，應該要從那個大師傳給他錯的法算起， 業障會比較重的應該是那個大師。
半寄師父: 那個魔鬼老師故意指導他做錯的事情，這存在嚴重的指導共業!(共業指A、B兩人共同的行為。又因A、B做事後產生的心理變化不同而有不同的遭遇，涵蓋好與壞的遭遇又稱別業。)
事實上人類的成長年限較長，社會形態較複雜，我們都有可能被教錯。或許人到成年吸收其他知識才知道原來我被教錯了！
How can one be more aware of mistakes and
then improve? A person who is falsely educated may also mislead lots of people.
It is an unexpected effect, but that, in reality, could attract more forces to come
into play. Like surfing, when the high and low wave pulls and pushes all the
way, you can still decide where your life is heading. It is not necessary to hold on to the
ridiculous idea of an eye for an eye. That
makes life so miserable and sad. As for being misled by false education,
answers can’t be clear-cut, and all depends on the ever-evolving conditions. Nidānas
is too complex to be considered homogenous.
(Translated by Hui-tun Chuang and Grace Jui-hsin Tsai)
(Proofread by Sophia Fang-chun Kuo)
知道被教錯了又要想怎麼樣才能修正！可是你被教錯的時間可能也誤導了很多人，所以人會在阻力跟扭力之間扭轉自我的人生。除了我剛才講的，不可能你殺100個人他再回來殺你100個人， 人不可能這樣活著。第二個， 原則上他就是被教錯的， 因緣是很複雜而且不可能是單一性質的。
半寄
